Feed Back
FEED BACK
Readers, as well as those involved in the motorcycle industry, are invited to have their say about motorcycles they own or have owned. Anything is fair game: performance, handling, reliability, service, parts availability, lovability, you name it. Suggestions: be objective, be fair, no wildly emotional but ill-founded invectives; include useful facts like mileage on odometer, time owned, model year, special equipment and accessories bought, etc.
TROUBLEFREE TOURER
After 15 months ownership of Suzuki’s 1973 T500K, I’d like to share with fellow riders my personal experiences with this machine.
I switched to the Suzuki after seven years experience with nine four-stroke bikes. My prior experience with two-stroke machines was very limited and not very positive, but I was particularly impressed with your (several) road tests of the T500K and must add that your positive comments had a lot to do with my overcoming my long-held (and ill-founded) suspicions that two-strokes were somehow an inferior commodity.
My T500 currently has 4300 miles on it, most of which were accumulated at highway speeds. At 1800 miles I added a Vetter “Windjammer” fairing; this accessory has proved itself as pleasurable as the bike itself. The bike runs smoothly at all speeds, accelerates strongly up to 100 mph, averages about 45 mpg and about 500 miles per tank of oil. Starting is at most a two-kick proposition with a cold engine; one jab gets things moving when the engine is warm.
I’ve had no mechanical problems to date at all and this includes no fouled plugs or oil leaks. The selling dealer, Suzuki of Columbus, performed the two scheduled initial service checks and since that time, I’ve adjusted the chain, clutch, replaced two instrument bulbs and cleaned the plugs a couple of times. No other maintenance has been necessary. In short, the bike is the easiest to maintain I’ve ever owned.
Performance, and I refer specifically to acceleration and handling, is easily superior to that of the 1969 CB450 and 1969 650cc BSA Thunderbolts, which I had ridden 4500 and 5100 miles, respectively. Also, the 500 seems to give most of the current crop of superbikes a strong showing up to 70 mph and has thus surprised several riders of machines selling for twice the T500 price.
Handling characteristics are positive and predictable at all speeds. At speed, on twisty secondary roads, the machine is a real confidence-builder, as it may be banked over vigorously to negotiate 35 mph curves at nearly twice the posted speed limits.
The standard tires and suspension do an admirable job of preventing unwanted oscillations during this type of riding. Under interstate highway conditions, the bike is rock steady and an extremely relaxing cruiser. Very little vibration may be felt through the handlebars and footpegs—at 65-70 mph the mild tingle is almost unnoticeable and does not numb my hands or feet, even after non-stop 150-mile runs.
In short, the T500K is the best all-around touring bike I’ve owned. It has proved itself absolutely reliable and totally free of all the nasty characteristics I used to associate with two-strokes. I’m looking forward to many years of owning this fine machine.
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Yours is a fine magazine. Keep up the outstanding work you’ve been doing in presenting an informed, objective and timely enthusiast publication.
Stephen H. Fowler Reynoldsburg, Ohio
NORTON 850 REPORT
I would like to commend CYCLE WORLD for the accuracy of the report on the Norton 850 Interstate road test that appeared in the April ’74 issue. At the time I was looking for a larger machine, but hadn’t really considered a Norton. I picked up a copy of your magazine in Atlanta, Ga. to read on my flight to Florida, and as a result purchased an 850 Roadster in early April. The only thing I can add to your remarks on this machine is that you have to ride one to believe it.
When I initially took delivery of the machine, however, I had several problems. One, it was almost impossible to start when the engine was hot (just the opposite of the report in CW), it had several oil leaks...one around the tach shaft, another at the bottom of the primary chain case, and a third at the banjo fitting on the right rocker box. Plus, it would load up at low rpm around town and foul the plugs. The dealer from whom I purchased the Norton is a new Norton dealer, so I’m not too critical about the lack of service knowledge and parts. They did fix the oil leaks, but at the 500-mile check, they over-filled the oil tank and fouled the air-cleaner element. They did give me a new element.
About this time I heard about E&F1 Motorcycle Sales and Service, Spartanburg, S.C., a Norton dealer. I was looking for a luggage rack and since they had them in stock, rode to this shop to purchase it. While there, I casually mentioned the starting problem to a Mr. Thomas McGraw, a mechanic employed by E&H. He informed me that this was not normal at all, and took my bike into the shop.
He found the points set at .008 instead of .15, and the timing off. After correcting this, he road tested the machine and set the mixtures and idling adjustments. Altogether, he spent almost two hours working on it. When I attempted to pay for this service, I was informed that there would be no charge since Norton owners shouldn’t have to put up with problems of that nature. In addition, I was treated like a king and a genuine concern was shown for my problem. Later the mechanic went to a lot of trouble getting the right idling jets in my carburetors, and changed the mixture screws to ones with rounded ends (mine had flat ends, which he said were hard to make fine adjustments with.
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I now have a “one-kick” Norton (99 percent of the time) that rides without loading up at low rpm and that gets 54 mpg at 55-60 mph. I ride my bike daily to work (all weather, winter included), and put about 1000 miles a month on it. So I really appreciate the proficiency and conscientiousness of the mechanics at E&H, not to mention the personal attention they give their customers. Since I’m in the service business myself—aviation electronics—I can spot a man who takes pride in his work, and E&H mechanics do. Remember, I didn’t even buy my bike from them, but from a competitor 30 miles away!
Just recently they did my 3000-mile check, and while I was waiting a couple on an 850 Moto Guzzi pulled in. One of the throttle cables had broken, they were on a trip and a long way from home. Since E&H didn’t have the exact size cable in stock (they have an excellent stock of Norton and Moto Guzzi parts, however), one of the owners spent about an hour cutting the housing off and installing the longer cable. When he had this repaired, he checked all the oil levels and found the transmission level low. He corrected this and, I swear, only charged for the cable.
Needless to say, service like this is almost impossible to find today. So if you find yourself in the Spartanburg area with a problem, here’s a shop that will go all out to get you going again, and won’t rip you off while doing it. They’re getting all of my business. And when I’m ready for my next Norton, they’ll sell it to me.
As for performance, I’m sure that there is a faster, more nimble machine than the Norton 850 Commando on the road, but I haven’t met it yet....
Charles W. Parrott Greer, S.C.
DEALER WOES
I sent the following letter to VespaHonda of Miami, Florida, and thought that you might be interested in it too. Subject: Honda Elsinore MT250, (Serial Number 1016842, Mileage (odometer): 251.
I shall describe on a day by day basis my experiences with the motorcycle already described and with the dealer from whom I bought it.
On April 16, 1974 I accepted from Vespa-Honda of 36th St. the indicated motorcycle in substitution of the one that had been tagged in my name, for there was no way the dealer’s mechanics could have it started. The day before I had paid in full (cash) $1035 for the machine, tags included.
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On April 20, 1974 I had to drive the mentioned motorcycle all the way back from Homestead AFB to the dealer’s store for an immediate check-up for the following reasons.
1. Rear sprocket lacked a safety clip, so by friction it was gradually destroying the frame. Dangerous enough?
2. I had accepted a motorcycle that had been offered to me ready for driving with no transmission oil and a bent chain protector that was having excessive friction with a completely loose chain. The front wheel was unaligned and the tachometer was completely loose. I started wondering what other surprises were awaiting me.
I managed to fix number two, but took it in because of the seriousness of number one. First I was told that I had to wait approximately 12 days for delivery of the parts. Yet, I managed to convince the salesman, Mr. Bob Winant, who by the way has been most sympathetic, to have the necessary parts taken from one of the other motorcycles in the showroom. After paying my transportation to and from the store, 1 had it in my possession again three days later.
On April 25, 1974, while leisurely driving the motorcycle and starting to think that my problems were temporarily solved, the engine quit three miles away from my place. I had been cruising at approximately 4000 rpm and the engine quietly died, ceasing all combustion. To my surprise, after several attempts to start it, with the throttle completely closed it started at 6000 rpm with no way of lowering it. I pushed it all the way.
On April 26, 1974, a new attempt is made to ride the motorcycle. It starts beautifully. Twenty minutes later the same problem reappeared. I called the service department and I was informed that I must pay them $ 1 5 for the service of coming and picking up the machine and taking it to their shop and examining it to see what was wrong with it.
A copy of this letter shall be delivered to various motorcycle magazines, to the Better Business Bureau and to whatever consumer protection agencies there are in this state. The obvious lack of inspection before delivering to a consumer is appalling. If it is dangerous with other objects, it is more so with a motorcycle. The driver’s life depends to a great degree on the reliability of the machine he is using.
I shall conclude indicating that I am an attorney at law admitted to the Bar of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, so I am aware of the rights and protections granted in various jurisdictions. It won’t be long before I can say the same thing about the laws in Florida. This is a worthwhile case with which to start. I have called the Service Department of the aforementioned dealer and they are coming today to take away and repair the machine. I am paying the $15 under protest and this letter is just the beginning of further legal proceedings. I formally request that Vespa-Honda of 36th St. provide me the following information:
1. A copy of the contract signed between Vespa-Honda of 36th St. and me.
2. A copy of the specific warranty offered by them and/or the one offered by Honda Corp. under the laws of Florida.
3. A copy of the job description already done on the motorcycle, a copy of which was verbally denied to me after repairs were done, as well as a copy of all the repairs done as of the present malfunction.
Francisco M. Lopez, Esq. Homestead AFB, Florida
SELECTIVE SERVICE
I have been a cycle enthusiast and an avid reader of your magazine for a little over three years now so I thought I would share with you an incident that happened to me a while ago and see what you and perhaps some of your readers think of it. It would seem that this incident is unique, as I have never seen a letter to this effect in CYCLE WORLD before.
I purchased a 1974 Suzuki GT7 50L from a dealer a short distance from my home. Soon after taking delivery of the bike, I found the battery to be defective and I knew it would have to be replaced. I checked with my dealer and found that they had no batteries in stock at that time but they could order one and it would be in shortly. As the riding season here was just beginning and I was anxious to get on the road, I asked them if I could purchase a battery at another dealer and be reimbursed by them for my expense. They said fine, if I could find another dealer with one to go ahead.
At this point I phoned a second Suzuki dealer and was told that they had the battery I needed. Approximately 30 minutes later I phoned the dealer a second time because I had a question to ask regarding the battery. The man on the phone answered my questions satisfactorily so I told him I would be there within an hour to pick it up.
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Upon arriving at the second dealership on my bike, 1 was met at the door by two salesmen, one of whom immediately began to quiz me regarding my bike. “Where did you get it?” “How much did you pay for it?” etc. Having nothing to hide, 1 told him what he wanted to know. I then turned to the other salesman and told him why I had come to their dealership. He turned around and hollered to the people at the parts counter “Hey! We don’t have any batteries for (name of other dealer’s) bikes do we?” The man behind the counter replied, “No, we sure don’t.”
I approached the parts people and told them that I had called an hour previously and was told that the battery was available. He informed me that “Whoever had answered the phone had made a mistake (remember, I had called twice about it), and that there were no batteries for my bike.” A woman employee who works behind the parts counter spoke up and informed me that “We do not service (name of other dealer’s) bikes.” I let her know that I was not after service but I was a cash-paying customer who had come for a part I had been told was available.
At this point the woman and two men behind the counter became very hostile toward me. I told them I thought the whole thing was rotten that just because I had not purchased my bike there they were refusing to sell me a part that I needed.
As I turned to leave. I said to one of the salesmen, “I bet if I had bought my bike here you would have had a battery for me wouldn’t you?” He said, “Yes we probably would have.” Upon being told that I was going to report the incident to U.S. Suzuki, he said, “Go ahead, it won’t do you any good.” I did indeed report it to Suzuki and they followed through much to my satisfaction. However, nothing has been heard from the second dealership explaining their part in this obvious act of discrimination. U.S. Suzuki promised to let me know when they received an answer from them.
I am sorry that this dealership has not taken the time to reply to Suzuki, as I would like to hear their excuse for such conduct. I sincerely hope that this is an isolated incident by only one shop in an otherwise fine network of motorcycle dealerships across the country. If it is not, do we dare to ride any more than pushing distance from our homes?
Charles Hibbard Flushing, Mich.
CYCLE SAFELY
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THOROUGHLY ENJOYS JACK PINER
Just about one year ago I bought a new ’74 Penton Jack Piner 175. As of this writing I have ridden it almost every weekend and entered two major desert events. The bike not only enabled me to finish in a good position both times, but also required no maintenance during either race. All that was done at the pit stops was refueling and chain lubing.
Having traded “down” from a Suzuki 400, it took me about six weekend rides to get used to the comparatively pipey Penton engine. Once I did, however, the bike was out-climbing my old 400 noticeably on steep, rutted hills. Stock gearing (12/52) is low enough to banzai up most hills and still high enough with the six-speed box to hit almost 80 on the desert floor.
When not racing in the desert, I trail ride my Penton at either Carnegie Cycle Park in Livermore or Hollister Hills Cycle Park. Both places have an abundance of long, steep, difficult climbs and miles of fast, twisty mountain trails. Here the Jack Piner really shines and has handling traits second to none.
The local Penton shop here in San Jose polished and matched my bike’s ports. The only other difference from a stocker is a bit of pipe surgery I performed that rid the bike of the double-wall portion behind the first weld on the expansion chamber. A J&R silencer/spark arrester was welded on the end of the snubbed stinger. The stock muffler is not stamped for Forestry approval and the transition was made to enable entrance to many offroad areas in this region. This modification allowed slightly better engine breathing and power, a decrease in weight, and largely reduced right-side bulge without an unwarranted increase in noise.
Maintenance isn’t as extensive as on most European racers, but must be carried out with ritualistic regularity. For me it’s second in fun only to the actual riding of the bike. Besides, pride of ownership is a big part of what a Penton is all about.
Terry Heath San Jose, Calif.
NOT SORRY ABOUT SUZUKI
After reading your comparison test on the Japanese 175 enduro bikes, I went ahead and bought what I had planned on in the first place, a TS185 Suzuki. And I can’t say that I’ve been sorry with my choice yet.
When I bought it I swapped the tach, stock rear dampers, levers and footpegs for S&W dampers with 60/90-lb. springs, cleated pegs and plastic levers. Then I built a nice, wide bash plate from a piece of 0.125-inch alloy plate, mounting it in back of the lower footpeg brackets. The iron fender and monster taillight were replaced with a Preston Petty “Big Muder” on custom alloy brackets and a smaller taillight on a lower alloy bracket.
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At first I wasn’t too happy about the handling in the dirt, that skinny little front tire wouldn’t bite at all. And the rear wasn’t a whole lot better. Remembering the shredded tubes my old Greeves used to produce with two security bolts, I was a little afraid to drop the tire pressure too low. But I’ve since found that the single security bolts in the Suzuki’s wheels hold the tires at only 12 psi. That pressure seems to help the handling at all speeds, and so far no tire slippage at all.
I stuck a number-one damper kit on the forks, because it was supposed to be the trick thing to do. With 130cc of a half-and-half mix of Lub’nTech 20 and 30-weight fork oil, and the springs in the second preload setting, the fork action seems to be good. But whether the damper kit is the answer, I’m not prepared to say. On the other end the S&Ws work great, but the springs are too stiff for my weight. Maybe 65 pounders would be better there.
With stock gearing I’ve had no problems in the woods; with either 12/50 or 13/50 gearing it’s a real little tractor. But since there’s precious little flywheel, an inadvertant twist of the throttle with the lower gearing produces instant acceleration. Great unless you’re aimed at something hard and immobile like a tree. Maybe a bit more work on my part would help.
In more than 2800 miles and six months, I’ve managed between 60 and 80 miles per gallon on lead-free Texaco gas with no pre-ignition or detonation and fairly good plug life. I’ve found that a Champion L-8 1 works better than the stock NGK B-AHC plug, and that a Champion N-4 fills the spare hole in the head and works just fine. A quart of Pennzoil two-stroke oil lasts around 600 miles, too, pretty economical for a thirsty two-stroke.
Suzuki could have done a better job in some areas though. Hanging the rear brake pedal and two bolts under what would otherwise be a nice smooth underside is hard to figure, especially after looking at the TS125, which has basically the same frame and engine. And the kickstarter is a bummer too; why not use the same lever as that on the TS125. The stock lever rubs your ankle if you ride standing on the pegs and catches your pants if you wear Levis while riding. And a couple of hours in the woods standing on the pegs will put a nice bruise on the inside of each knee from the oil tank cover and exhaust pipe. Maybe my knees are in the wrong place. The stock handlebars are okay until you’re up on the pegs for any length of time. Then your wrists are cocked at a weird angle and pain sets in. The guy who designed that air cleaner should be sentenced to a lifetime of removing and reinstalling it! A plastic rear fender and good footpegs are in order too.
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Other than cleaning the chain and air cleaner element and keeping the plugs in some semblance of cleanliness, maintenance is minimal. No points to waterproof, although the stock plug cap was replaced with a lodge cap and siliconesealed. And the coil was silicone-sealed, so it can wade up to its cases with no ill-effect. The pegs are nice and high so that mashed or wet feet are less of a problem, and good ground clearance combined with fairly light weight makes woods riding a real pleasure.
Finally, why do so many factories stop short when they design a bike. Obviously when designing a bike to meet a price, it’s not possible to build chrome moly frames or use alloy wheels, but little things like proper pegs, tucked-in covers and exhaust systems and easily-serviced air cleaners wouldn’t cost any more. And even if they did, the difference could be made up by deleting useless frills like tachometers. It’s not just Suzuki, but most of the other factories—Japanese and European—that stop when they should still keep going.
For anyone who likes to modify and tinker, the TS185 can be turned into a great little woods bike. For anyone who just wants to gas it, oil it and ride it, and doesn’t mind slipping footpegs and bent rear fenders, the TS185 is still a great little woods bike.
Larry Ellestt Brior, Wash.
